Brazil and India are building strategic ties for a changing world, says Brazil’s foreign minister

In an interview with The Hindu in New Delhi, Brazilian Foreign Minister Mauro Vieira lauds India’s BRICS chairmanship, says bilateral trade could cross the $30 billion target well before 2030, and asserts that BRICS is not an anti-Western bloc.

President Lula visited India earlier this year and there was very strong enthusiasm about Brazil among Indian business leaders. Bilateral trade is also expanding rapidly. How do you see the future of Brazil-India relations?

Brazil and India have everything they need to build, in addition to the excellent political relationship we already have, a very strong economic relationship. India is a huge country with a huge population and a highly sophisticated industry. When President Lula was here earlier this year, he and Prime Minister Narendra Modi launched the goal of reaching $30 billion in bilateral trade by 2030. We are already approaching $20 billion. The business reached around 15 billion dollars last year with very strong growth and according to current projections it should reach around 20 billion dollars this year.

Petrobras is very happy with its business in India and sells a lot here. There are also several other projects that could materialize in the short term and significantly increase bilateral trade. Embraer has big interests in India and is very active in both commercial aviation, which is of course very important in a country the size of India, and defense with the KC-390 and Super Tucano aircraft.

WEG also has a very significant international presence and Vale is another major Brazilian company with interests there. Yesterday I met with a group of Brazilian business leaders representing about 20 companies, including majors such as Vale, Embraer and WEG, as well as associations representing meat exporters and other sectors. If some of the deals currently being developed by Embraer, Vale, WEG and others come to fruition, bilateral trade could exceed $30 billion in the short term. We could reach this goal long before 2030.

How do you rate India’s BRICS chairmanship and the transition from Brazilian to Indian chairmanship?

I believe that Brazil has been very successful in the main presidencies it has held in recent years. The G20 was very important and laid the groundwork for action in several areas. The BRICS chairmanship was also very important, as was the COP.

Interestingly, a significant number of BRICS members are also members of the G20. This creates an important space for dialogue and coordination. Brazil has launched and passed on important initiatives in both the G20 and BRICS. India has undertaken many of these projects in several areas during its BRICS chairmanship.

The New Development Bank is also extremely important. The meeting in Mumbai was very important and many interesting events are happening. The bank is growing, will continue to grow and consolidate in the spirit of BRICS, which is supposed to promote reform of global governance.

The Bretton Woods institutions – the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund – reflect an 80-year-old reality. Their review, approval and disbursement mechanisms can make access difficult for many developing countries. With the BRICS Bank, we can have a faster, more agile and efficient system under the control of the countries that own the bank and have a direct interest in its success.

You have a long standing relationship with External Affairs Minister S. Jaishnkar. How important are personal and diplomatic ties, and how closely linked are Brazil and India in multilateralism and global governance?

My meeting with Minister Jaishankar was very good. We have known each other for a long time. Around 2012, we were colleagues in Washington. I was already serving as an ambassador there when he arrived as the Indian ambassador, and that was when we met for the first time. Later, when I came to India in 2015, during the government of President Dilma Rousseff, I was the foreign minister and he was the foreign minister. Then we met again. Since my return to office in 2023, this relationship has continued. It helps the dialogue a lot.

We talk often, consult each other, and our positions are very similar – virtually the same – on multilateralism and global governance.

Would you say that Brazil and India also share the view that BRICS should not be seen as an anti-Western bloc?

Exactly. I was asked about this by the Indian media yesterday. There were many microphones around me and the questions were: “Is BRICS anti-Western? Is BRICS anti-American?” It’s nothing like that.

On the contrary, we perceive BRICS as a space for negotiation, dialogue and consensus building. It is a space where positions can be discussed and countries can work towards a common understanding. There is nothing anti-Western about it. This is a point we need to repeat often because there is still misunderstanding about the purpose of BRICS.

The same argument is often made about local currencies and the dollar. Are BRICS trying to replace the US dollar?

No. That’s not what it’s about. The possible use of local currencies to settle part of bilateral trade is something that many countries already do and very often it is a private sector decision. Governments do not tell companies what currency they must use. It is ultimately the choice of companies, exporters and importers.

For example, Brazil has had a local currency payment agreement with Argentina since 2004. I was in Argentina when it was discussed. But even there it represents only a limited part of bilateral trade, as participation depends on the private sector.

Chinese President Xi Jinping is in India for this summit, his first visit to the country in seven years. India will also hand over the BRICS chairmanship to China. What is the significance of Xi’s presence and do you see a broader stabilization of relations between India and China?

The fact that President Xi has come to India is proof of the importance China attaches to BRICS. There is no doubt that BRICS is a very important group. China has also been one of the main drivers of BRICS expansion and this expansion has been important for all members. One of the advantages of BRICS is that countries that may have differences can sit together in a smaller and informal setting and discuss them directly.

Take Iran and the United Arab Emirates. Both are members of BRICS and have differences. But having both within the group can also be an advantage, as BRICS provides a space where dialogue can take place with greater intimacy and informality.

In a very large organization like the United Nations, it can sometimes be much more difficult to bring countries together in this way.

The same logic applies on a larger scale. India and China are huge countries, major powers and major trading partners. PM Modi has already been to China, meetings have taken place and economic relations are very important. Xi’s presence here is therefore significant both for the BRICS and the broader Asian geopolitical context.

Russian President Vladimir Putin is also participating in the summit. What does his presence say about India’s role and India’s relationship with Russia?

It is another important fact and shows India’s involvement in the organization and negotiations. President Putin came to the summit, which is significant. India and Russia have a relationship that spans many years. Politically and strategically, they are very close countries in many ways. They are both huge countries, major powers in the same wider region. They agree on many things and disagree on others, but their relationship is deep and long-lasting.

Russia has historically supported BRICS expansion. Has the expansion phase been put on hold now? Are BRICS entering a period of consolidation rather than further expansion?

I believe so. The expansion was considered a success and brought an important benefit to the group. Indonesia was the last country to enter as a full member in this initial expansion process. Indonesia was invited, but asked that the final decision wait until President Prabowo takes office, as becoming a member of BRICS is an important strategic decision.

I think the bottom line now is that we need a period to consolidate the group and its agenda. There is also an organizational issue, as BRICS does not currently have a permanent structure. Some countries have proposed the creation of a BRICS secretariat, but it does not exist at the moment.

Each country that takes over the rotating presidency is responsible for organizing the meetings, preparing the agenda and maintaining the documents produced at those meetings. So we need time to consolidate the participation of new members and also to strengthen the dialogue with partner countries.

Many partner countries would like to become full members and many of them are asking Brazil for support. Our answer is that Brazil will support them when there is a collective decision to reopen the expansion process. For now, it is important to strengthen the dialogue between full members and partner countries, as this will help structure the group better. BRICS has already made important achievements. It has many cooperation projects, including in healthcare and other areas, and has its own development bank.

Before coming to India, you visited Singapore and Thailand as part of Brazil’s growing cooperation with ASEAN. How does this broader Asian strategy relate to Brazil’s relationship with India?

It is part of a wider project to bring Brazil closer to ASEAN and Asia. President Lula gave us a clear direction to deepen Brazil’s political and trade relations with ASEAN countries. At the beginning of the government, in 2023, we established a permanent representation in Jakarta with an ambassador accredited to the ASEAN Secretariat. Brazil has become an ASEAN Sectoral Dialogue Partner and we are now working to advance to the Dialogue Partner level, which represents a higher level of engagement. Brazil was also the first Latin American country to establish a permanent representation at the ASEAN Secretariat and the first Latin American country to accede to the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation.

The economic results are already very significant. If you compare Brazil’s exports over the past three years to the five largest ASEAN markets with exports to Brazil’s five largest G7 partners, the numbers are comparable. But there is an important difference: Brazil has run a strong trade surplus in this region, while facing large deficits elsewhere. This shows the logic of this strategy.

These Asian markets are open to Brazil, and Brazil has a long-term ability to maintain a political dialogue with these countries. Our goal is to connect this political relationship with mechanisms that deepen and strengthen economic relations.

Finally, what is the essence of Brazil’s foreign policy, especially in a world increasingly marked by strategic rivalry?

The essence of Brazilian foreign policy is that Brazil is a country that promotes peace, integration and peaceful coexistence between states. These principles are enshrined in Article 4 of our Constitution, which defines the principles that should guide Brazil’s foreign policy. Brazil is not a military power, nor does it want to be. Brazil wants to live in peace. It wants to use negotiation and consensus building.

President Lula is the main promoter of this foreign policy. He was so during the first two terms of office and he is still so today. You can see his determination to open new fronts for political relations, but also for trade and cooperation. Brazil’s foreign policy is peaceful. It is based on cooperation, rapprochement, dialogue and respect for international law. We talk to everyone.

Brazil has one of the largest diplomatic networks in the world. We have embassies all over Africa and all over Asia. We maintain diplomatic relations with countries that do not often speak to each other. This represents Brazil. Brazil is a powerhouse for peace – a country committed to dialogue, cooperation, international law and negotiated solutions.